Today, I’m delighted to be joined on The Egg Whisperer Show by Marc Sherman of Organic Conceptions, a company he founded after a 20-year career in corporate America. The idea came after he and his wife Erin struggled with infertility, decided to adopt, and then unexpectedly found themselves pregnant. Realizing that this phenomenon occurs regularly, they decided to conduct the first-ever research project to better understand the insights, patterns, and commonalities from similar stories.
They partnered with Ph.D. Kate Webster and conducted a multi-year study that uncovered 9 key emotional transitions that were common across these stories, and that are required for conception. Their program, The Journey to Parenthood & Beyond, helps couples identify, name, address, and overcome the suffering involved when struggling to conceive, resulting in healthier patients and better outcomes.
Here’s what we cover in this episode:
- Marc Sherman’s background and how Organic Conceptions came to be
- The importance of mental health during the fertility journey
- Research on emotional transitions that can affect conception
- Marc and Erin’s personal fertility journey
- An overview of Organic Conceptions’ program and services
Resources:
Marc Sherman’s website, Organic Conceptions
Find Dr. Aimee’s Fertility Essentials
Full Transcript
Dr. Aimee: I am so excited to have Marc Sherman on today. Welcome, Marc.
Marc Sherman: Thanks so much for having me.
Dr. Aimee: Thank you, Marc, again for coming on today. Your story is inspiring. I love that your own curiosity is what led you to this purpose-driven life that you and Erin have found for yourselves looking for answers that help other people.
What did you notice in your own journey that made you wonder if there was more going on behind the scenes? Tell us about your journey and answer this question. I know I’m talking a lot. Tell us more, Marc.
Marc Sherman: This is great. Thank you for bringing mental health in as part of the conversation. Everyone, my wife and I included, we spent so many years just focused on physical nature. We knew every lab result, every chart, we were just analytically trying to solve the mystery. All along, we really didn’t pay much attention to our emotional or psychological state, we really didn’t think about it at all.
We had two separate instances where we had this unexpected surprise conception after years of struggling. The word struggling is an understatement. This consumed us, this was a dark cloud that hung over my wife and I for many years. It changes you as an individual, it changes your dynamic as a couple, it changes your enthusiasm for life. Life just goes on hold.
On two separate occasions, there was this shift, this change after we decided to pursue another path. Then here it was, we became that annoying story. Those stories are annoying. Quite honestly, they’re annoying. People come out of the woodwork to say, “Why don’t you just adopt? Try this. Take a break.” It dismisses what you’re going through, it makes you feel as if you’re creating the problem, or even worse. We don’t want people thinking that pursuing adoption is a way to trick your body into a conception. It’s unrealistic.
But after it happened twice, you couldn’t help but be like the stories at face value are useless, but twice in our lives we had success, and you just couldn’t help but wonder if there is more. If we go deeper into the research, are there patterns, commonalities, insights that can really draw attention to we are more than just physical beings, we’re physical and we’re emotional. for most people, you’re putting all your emphasis into the physical side of conception.
That led us to say there is more here. I believe on two occasions, there was a change. There was a change in the way we were living our lives. There was a change in terms of the interpretation where my wife felt broken and damaged. There was a change in terms of the life we created around the struggle. There were two separate times that changed. We let it go without ever stop trying. We just felt that the research could bring something forward that can help guide people. Whether they’re in treatment, considering treatment, looking for a natural approach, it doesn’t matter. We prepare our bodies, but there is very little we do to prepare our minds.
Dr. Aimee: I feel like I should have the song Let It Go. You can’t tell, but there are speakers up here in the ceiling. I always feel like Let It Go should be just on repeat here because that is the best kind of outlook that I try to teach my patients. I’m glad you brought it up.
What are the commonalities? You said that there were two instances where you changed your outlook. What did you learn?
Marc Sherman: Let me just say, let it go, it’s like an oxymoron. It’s like when people are told to relax and just meditate, it’s near impossible. You’re hanging on where every month you’re going from hopeful to that crashing despair. It’s almost unrealistic in terms of how do you really put yourself in a position where you’re trusting in this process.
It was through the research that we uncovered these nine psychological stages, or these transitions, that people move through. Ultimately, the net of the research is that your quality of life around your sense of self, the way you think about your self-worth, self-esteem, the way in which you identify yourself, your ability to cope where you have the hope and then despair, that constant fluctuation, you have the anger, the grief, the sadness, the jealousy, and then your commitment or your willingness to move forward with life. Most people, you’re pulling back, you’re socially isolating, you don’t feel like you want to move forward with life.
Through all of this research, what we realized is that the people in our research, many people with PCOS, endometriosis, advanced age, the data went from very low levels of quality of life around those three constructs, sense of self, coping, and connection with life, to very high levels. They had no idea there was going to be an unexpected anything, but there was a letting go of the past disappointment. There was a realization that this is your journey, it’s not your sister’s, your best friend’s, or your neighbor’s. There was a level of starting to trust that our families come to be in unique ways.
Through these nine steps, we ultimately can help people gain a new perspective, a new shift in the way in which they’re interpreting their journey, the meaning they give it, and ultimately the life you create around it. For many people, it just consumes you. You want this just to go away, and there is nothing else that you can really concentrate on.
Dr. Aimee: It is all-consuming. I feel like you have to take an active role. I call them the always negative thoughts, or those ‘ANTs’ that are just sitting there and just constantly talking to you. You have to know how to push them off your shoulder. It sounds like you guys are going to teach people those skills to flick them off, so as soon as those thoughts invade your brain, you can stop them.
Marc Sherman: You got it. It’s about giving people actual skills. Do you know how many times my wife did – and I’m not against any of these things – yoga, meditation, girl’s night out? All good, but X hours later or the next day, that thought is sitting in your head, that what-if scenario, that rumination that is living within our bodies. I think because our bodies know when it’s safe, we know when our body is in our good place.
What we’re doing differently through these stages is giving people the ability to really understand and get to the root of your thoughts and giving you strategies and tools to say, “Wow, I understand my circumstances, but I have a choice in terms of my thoughts around them, my emotions, and the actions that I take.” When you can actually give people tools, that’s when you achieve lasting change.
Dr. Aimee: I imagine you took a big risk. You left a corporate job of 20 years. Unless you made a zillion dollars and have your own plane, that’s quite a risk to start Organic Conceptions. So, obviously, this is really important to you guys. And you are working with the ultimate professionals. Kate Webster as an example. What led you to find her, and how did you guys put the data around what you noticed in your personal life and to get other people to notice?
Marc Sherman: I have no plane, there’s no jet. It was a huge risk. I tell people doing a startup when you’re later in life is much different than when you might be doing it at 27. We’ve had to move several times and sell the home that we built, so there’s a whole other story of what it takes to stand up for something.
I think the passion came that it was annoying to hear people talk about these stories that were useless to hear and being told to relax is so unrealistic. I think that we want people to start to look at your emotional health just like you looked at your physical health, which is we are doing so much to prepare our bodies, but we do not think about this piece. Mental health is sometimes seen as a sign of weakness, or something we do after a setback, or something we do after failed treatments.
The reality is most people, before they even start trying, they’re thinking about this, they’re anticipating this, they’re told that with their eggs there’s an urgency and they’re running out of time. There’s worry and anxiety. But at the end of the day, most people are suppressing our thoughts, and you start to become in the analytical mindset, and you’re trying to solve this and overcome this like you are going after your new job profession or the house that you want.
So, I think the passion came as holy smokes, our bodies are way more capable than we give them credit for. Yes, the tech and science have advanced so greatly, but what do we do to look at mental health as not a reaction to a setback but something that we do proactively and allow our physical state to be optimized and our mental health state, and together allow people to achieve greater outcomes? I think we just became passionate that the science has improved, but when it comes to mental health it’s still this thing that we hand out business cards to therapists when someone is in a difficult place. We want to help people proactively get into a good place for a healthy journey, because so many people lose years of their lives.
The way a woman is interpreting this is different than a man. There’s a lot of anxiety that comes into play. My wife and I, at the end of the day, lost so much time that we can’t get back. We didn’t socialize with friends. We wouldn’t go to work events. It literally consumed us, and that was valuable time, and we hope to change that for others.
Dr. Aimee: I love it. Not everyone has a support system. Some people, I call them independent mothers. Or some people are from different cultures, they have different cultural backgrounds that make it so taboo for them to even bring up this stuff. So, I love your platform because it’s a way for people, no matter what you’re going through and what kind of support you have, all of a sudden, you have support through you.
What did you qualitatively discover about the impact of being in fertility treatment on hormones?
Marc Sherman: I think that what we realized is that the way in which, for many people they tell us the industry doesn’t give us permission to engage in our thoughts. Most people and women have told us, “I feel like if I wasn’t trying everything, I didn’t really want this baby.” We are just in obsessive, do everything, and it’s generally physical work that we’re doing. I think that through the research what we realized is that people came to this point where there was a change and a letting go of that, where they came back to themselves, they came back to each other.
At the end of the day, that quality of life, going from very low levels to high levels, we know there is so much information talking about the connection between our minds and bodies. You can see the anxiety levels decrease, the stress level decreases. We know that stress and hormone balance and everything else are related.
I just think it’s a matter of we talk to a lot of people saying at the end of the day, we can’t make a promise of what the outcome is, it’s just not ethical. So many people were promising my wife and I outcomes. Ethically, we tell people all the time if you look at our courses as a to-do way to conceive a baby, we’re probably not your place. If you’re ready for a change, if you’re ready to live a healthy life now, if you realize your journey is part of your story and you can’t take this piece away, it changes your perspective, it changes how you will ultimately parent, and certainly your outlook on life.
At the end of the day, I think that the data was very strong in terms of the quality of life. We know separately that there is a lot of data that speaks to high levels of stress, high levels of anxiety, high levels of even social isolation and how that can actually impact our reproductive health.
Dr. Aimee: I want to jump into Organic Conceptions and where that title came from.
Marc Sherman: That is funny. When I was very comfortable in the corporate career with health benefits, salaries, titles, and all that fun stuff, I met Dr. Kate Webster. That had a lot to do with it. I met someone who I believe was that person. I don’t know how to conduct research, she was a research psychologist, and I met her in my corporate environment and she and I became friends. I said, “Everyone has that seed in them of that one thing that someday you’ll go do,” and for me it was this.
I wanted to change the course for others. When I met Kate, “You’re that person.” We sat down one day at a restaurant-bar with a little white napkin. Organic, some people are like, “Is this related to food?” I just felt like allowing our bodies to naturally be, allowing our journeys to come about in the way in which they will.
So many people in our research look back and say, “This journey played out exactly the way it should have.” Some people did pursue other paths and found their families in other ways, and still were able to conceive on their own. We don’t know. It’s when we let go of the expectations. I think that organically we’re helping people to get to their best place possible. We work with some of the best IVF docs, we work with people that are early on, it doesn’t matter. It’s about bringing the physical and the emotional into unison, into harmony really.
Dr. Aimee: I have a suggestion.
Marc Sherman: Okay.
Dr. Aimee: Sometimes I have to remind myself what’s the website name. I was like if only they had named it Orgasmic Conceptions. I feel like if you had called it Orgasmic Conceptions, I’d be like holy shit, how do I get my hands on that, because that sounds amazing. Because I get that question all the time, “Do I have to give my wife an orgasm to help her get pregnant?” I’m like if you want her to ever look at you again, yes. Maybe have an Orgasmic Conceptions part on your website. I don’t know. Just throwing that out there.
Marc Sherman: That’s a whole other thing.
Dr. Aimee: A whole other business. That’s the next platform that you’re going to build after this one.
So, where does someone start? You go to the platform. What do you do?
Marc Sherman: You almost have to start yourself to say, “How am I doing, really?” One of the first things we try to do is get people to just emotionally stop and take stock of what you’ve been through. Think about the thoughts that you have. Think about how is that showing up in your life, and is it contributing, and in what way. If you feel like that you need some change, then I think that you’re ready for us.
We have a three-step process. We do tests, we have an in-home cortisol test kit. Some people just want to know is the stress really impacting their body or not, so we’re testing through a cortisol kit. We also have an emotional health assessment that people just complete. We then analyze those two scores, and then we move you to the platform to move through this nine-step methodology that is proven to advance and improve your quality of life. We know that when you are in a healthier state, your body is going to be in a better position to perform its function.
For some people, I tell them if you’re feeling overwhelmed, you don’t need the cortisol kit. If you’re feeling it, who cares if it’s showing up or not? Take action, address this in a proactive way. Don’t look at it as a sign of weakness in any way. After COVID and everything else this year, we all emotionally… There are times in our lives where we will not have that control over the situation, over the outcome, and it’s really how we can endure in those moments that really will define us as people.
So, we want to test and assess where you’re at, and then ultimately the entire course is online. We meet people in the privacy of their own home. They move through our nine-step methodology. We have other cognitive based mini lessons around how to dismiss negative thoughts and around how to look at your label and diagnosis. A lot of people have some identity that consumes them. We have a lot of mini lessons on topics that our members wanted to hear more about.
We also have an incredible program around nutrition and lifestyle. We do support groups every month for our members to be able to come on board to ask any questions in a live setting. We also have a private community that allows people to post any question at any time, we have your back, we’re there to respond, we’re there to engage you.
Anyone that becomes a member, it’s lifetime. Know why? Regardless of where your journey takes you and your family comes to be, we’ve got your back and we’re there for you.
Dr. Aimee: It should be lifetime Orgasmic Conceptions. No, I’m just kidding. Lifetime Organic Conceptions.
I talk a lot about, you’ve probably heard, the fertility TEAM. So, I have FertilityTEAM.com. Now I feel like I should just route it right over to Organic Conceptions, because I feel like you guys embody what I’ve always envisioned. I always tell people to build your own mind body center and build it yourself. Right now, people aren’t going out and about and doing all the kinds of stuff that we used to do, and it’s all right there at Organic Conceptions. You have the therapy, the eating recommendation, mindfulness stuff, it’s all right there. Thank you for all of the work that you guys are doing.
Marc, is there anything else that you wanted to share with our audience today?
Marc Sherman: No. I just want people to feel inspired. I don’t think there’s anyone we’ve ever engaged or reached out of hundreds of couples that didn’t look back and say, “Gosh, this played out the way that it was supposed to.”
It’s hard to see when you’re living with the incredible uncertainty that comes with this journey, and I know it’s easier said than done, but if we can just give a little grace to ourselves and the thoughts that we have, and realize that this is our own journey, it’s unique to us, our family will come to be in unique ways, and if we can just trust that without that constant urgency that we’re running out of time. Most people have incredible amounts of value to offer this world today, but we put off the love and we put off the joy thinking that will come once we achieve success. I think we have to help people to live their best lives now.
Dr. Aimee: Amen. Find joy in every moment that you have. Life is too damn short.
Marc Sherman: Absolutely.
Dr. Aimee: Thank you, Marc. I hope I can meet your wife one day. I imagine that she is remarkable.
Marc Sherman: Absolutely. You absolutely can. She’s very active with our member base, for sure.
Dr. Aimee: Awesome. Excellent. You have a wonderful day.
Marc Sherman: Thank you.
Dr. Aimee: I hope to have you back on when we learn about your next platform.
Marc Sherman: I love it. Thank you.
Dr. Aimee: Have a great day.
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